tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post6625633764050188553..comments2023-05-10T10:27:37.644-05:00Comments on Such A Pretty Bubble: In Defense of the Clown Mass (But Not Really)Charlottehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-45510737366617332532020-11-20T22:51:23.067-06:002020-11-20T22:51:23.067-06:00It's probably just a coincidence! Pinocchio is...It's probably just a coincidence! Pinocchio is a common sermon illustration. Either that or seeing that he was in the middle of a clown mass he decided to respond charitably and not like narrow minded traditionalists, and come down to reach the people on their own clownish level. Repeat after me: Just because the Pope went to clown masses and preached about Pinocchio is no big deal. Its just one time. Let's give them all a break and be more charitable towards these rare and uplifting instances of clown masses.ClownMassCheeseHatNoBigDealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05966647279223557870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-46012969079987473702020-11-20T22:47:34.572-06:002020-11-20T22:47:34.572-06:00me too, I think its awesome he's not a hidebou...me too, I think its awesome he's not a hidebound traditionalist but approaches clown masses in a spirit of charity and good humorClownMassCheeseHatNoBigDealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05966647279223557870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-69222079846108696952020-11-20T22:43:53.559-06:002020-11-20T22:43:53.559-06:00I agree totally. Let's give them all a break ...I agree totally. Let's give them all a break on these clown masses. Why should the bishops have any idea what the mass will be like at their churches? Its more exciting to show up and have no idea what will be going on anyways. The fact is some bishops will be on top of this stuff and some won't be. And for that reason we should give them all a break, people, on somethings. ClownMassCheeseHatNoBigDealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05966647279223557870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-43596840818103160242020-11-20T22:39:15.746-06:002020-11-20T22:39:15.746-06:00Guys its just one clown mass! Take a chill pill. ...Guys its just one clown mass! Take a chill pill. Maybe they did it as a favor to some guys who really like clowns. Maybe they did it because someone says they aren't kid friendly enough. Guys and just because Cardinal Dolan ONE TIME wore a cheese hat at a mass doesn't in any way take away from the dignity of the ritual. Its just one time (each time I mean). This is totally just scraping the bottom of the barrel. Let's not focus on the clowns and cheese hats. The Catholic church is good and healthy and these things REPRESENT NOTHING. ClownMassCheeseHatNoBigDealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05966647279223557870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-84411330813214237892013-11-08T09:15:50.920-06:002013-11-08T09:15:50.920-06:00>>>Here's the thing, though. Bishops ...>>>Here's the thing, though. Bishops don't do that. They don't show up to say mass and then decide once they get there to back out. Instead, if they sense something is "off" about the arrangement, they proceed with goodwill, love, charity, and respect for those attending, as well as those who hosted and planned the mass. <<<<br /><br />The Pope references Pinocchio in his homily. <br />Pinocchio is present for said homily.<br /><br />Clearly, the pope has planned Pinocchio if he mentions Pinocchio...or does he have a speech writer as well as media/ limelight/ humility advisers? In any case, they all should be fired, the pope included.<br /><br />SAVE THE LITURGY, SAVE THE WORLD. <br /><br />(I'll sign as anonymous because I don't have any of those accounts, but my name is Priscilla. Miss Bragg, if you're nasty.)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-46603461772035248462013-11-01T13:29:32.734-05:002013-11-01T13:29:32.734-05:00Errboday needs to calm down. Obviously, there are ...Errboday needs to calm down. Obviously, there are horrible abuses of the liturgy. Sure, but when hyper-scrupulous Catholics start freaking out about stuff like this video (which, watch the video again, there is no definitive evidence that says the cartoon-y figures were actually part of the mass- they could have been either before or after) it takes the focus off the real problems like, actual clown masses or Eucharistic prayers that have been so altered that transubstantiation isn't even happening, depriving Catholics of Holy Communion. <br /><br />Let's not all freak out about the possibility that our Pope *ghasp* might have been asked to celebrate a mass that happened to have some non-traditional elements surrounding it, which, as pointed out in this blog post, HE PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.<br /><br />Perspective, people!Tirienne Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09624335262582372231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-29531061637294199482013-04-20T16:19:45.357-05:002013-04-20T16:19:45.357-05:00Gee you come across as angry and bitter as the ...Gee you come across as angry and bitter as the 'Trads' you criticize. Do lighten upAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-54977618589837469512013-04-15T15:22:20.408-05:002013-04-15T15:22:20.408-05:00Good job, "clown mass" vid, you convince...Good job, "clown mass" vid, you convinced my close friend to convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church when nothing else would get the job done. Life is good...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-63716868650316460572013-04-03T07:13:32.267-05:002013-04-03T07:13:32.267-05:00"Missa Luba" is one of the most exciting..."Missa Luba" is one of the most exciting African masses I have ever heard, with catchy tunes that stay in your brain for weeks. I first heard it nearly 50 years ago andthought it was splendid then. So did everybody else; In those days one could just perform by singing - all the dancing and AV aids weren't necessary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-50818500007813881742013-04-03T07:08:59.485-05:002013-04-03T07:08:59.485-05:00I was too late to add a comment on your delightful...I was too late to add a comment on your delightful Rorate Coeli blog,(in order to agree with your irreverent views!! LOL) but happy to contribute here. <br />I am old enough to REMEMBER what it was like to go from the Mass with Latin missals (still have mine, stuffed with holy pictures) to the Mass in the vernacular. As a recent convert (family conversion) from CofE, I enjoyed both versions of the Mass, and guess what, I've sung plenty of Plainsong (Gregorian chant) since then and attended Latin masses. <br /><br />Regarding the many people who pontificate (sorry for the pun) on what Should or Should Not Be, and that Tradition is Best, my theory is that:<br />a) these people are young, and not terrifically well educated;<br />b) they haven't bothered to research the occasions when the traditional Mass (with the anti-Semite prayers correctly excised - Jesus Christ was a very good Jew) has been sanctioned and even encouraged;<br />c) they oppose any change for any reason because they just don't understand that any institution that does not incline to adapt to the times will ossify and crumble away;<br />d) they just like saying "No";<br />but worst of all, <br />if ever Jesus Christ were to come down to Earth and walk around in jeans, T shirt, Doc Martins and a backpack, he would not be recognised but be hounded by these very traditionalists.<br /><br />The emeritus Pope opened the doors for traditional rites to be revived Within Reason and with Due Control, and the current Pope would be the very first to recognise and worship a T-shirted returning Messiah. Who else would follow Francis' example? It would be a minority for a long while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-70538046644652149352013-03-27T06:33:44.758-05:002013-03-27T06:33:44.758-05:00Also, note that there are now people who say that ...Also, note that there are now people who say that clips aren't in order here - that the bit with the children happened BEFORE mass, not during it; that someone snipped it that way for effect - so this isn't a real representation of what happened.<br /><br />Tradofascists are the bane of one's existence in Oxford (mostly (un)converted AngloCatholics here, obsessed with lace, ceremony, each other and very little else). They are, interestingly, the most morally underdeveloped people I know - the comments on RCae about those who need govt assistance or who aren't as privileged as they are are horrifying. Also, it's interesting how childlike their concept of 'good' or 'love' is - it's all about being in agreement. You know how a 2 year old hates mommy if he doesn't get what he wants? Same deal - it's so narrow, so black and white. Their emotional lives are so stunted. When I'm charitable, I know they're afraid, in pain, angry, need the absolute certainty and order because they're trying to contain a complete mess of deep-seated, unresolved issues on the inside. Unfortunately, most of the time I suck at being charitable and am in complete agreement with my friend who said, 'I know it makes me a terrible person, but I want to make some popcorn and watch these morally bankrupt reactionaries ---- themselves.' I basically said, 'Pass it, babes.'<br /><br />BTW, found you when I googled 'Rorate Caeli ass' a fortnight ago. I was hesitant, because I AM a more liberal Catholic (who attends an NO Latin mass every week by preference, go figure!), but I'm loving it here. Thank you for being you - look forward to being here more! <br /><br />A blessed Triduum and Eastertide to you and yours - and all my fellow readers out here! xxPragmatic Mystic https://www.blogger.com/profile/08877990361303745003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-1592004157292835822013-03-26T09:24:14.652-05:002013-03-26T09:24:14.652-05:00From Kay, via email:
"Insightful post and pr...From Kay, via email:<br /><br />"Insightful post and probably often true of some of liturgies our previous pontiffs have presided over. Also, some cultures have liturgical customs which seem really bizarre to us but which are very devout from their point of view. One had to wonder if the popes were gritting their teeth while acting gracious. <br /><br />We need to give Pope Francis a chance to get used to his role. It would be a pretty big change. I think the screaming and hollering could set back the progress that has been made in recent years. I try to avoid reading the negative stuff. Kay"Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-798813595082562012013-03-19T16:05:37.458-05:002013-03-19T16:05:37.458-05:00Catlady,
I have found that for years now, Traditio...Catlady,<br />I have found that for years now, Traditional Catholics won't or can't answer for the African masses. A few days ago, JMB observed that the obsession with the TLM seems to be a very western thing. Perhaps she is right?Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-37981186693130053382013-03-19T16:01:49.047-05:002013-03-19T16:01:49.047-05:00Question: if you are reading this on a smartphone ...Question: if you are reading this on a smartphone or tablet, does the you tube video show up?<br />Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-12427332900275805382013-03-19T15:09:11.248-05:002013-03-19T15:09:11.248-05:00The more I see Pope Francis, the more I like him!!...The more I see Pope Francis, the more I like him!!!JMBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02542004362101344466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-77772872024538443102013-03-19T13:13:39.637-05:002013-03-19T13:13:39.637-05:00@DaveP, good examples, that's what I thought, ...@DaveP, good examples, that's what I thought, thanks. This is where I feel people who criticize things need to be careful about vocalizing preferences versus calling out things that are not allowed.<br /><br />CatladyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-28144238745524255292013-03-19T13:00:34.914-05:002013-03-19T13:00:34.914-05:00Yes, but are those "in the round" buildi...<i>Yes, but are those "in the round" buildings prohibited somewhere in the Catechism or other documents? </i><br /><br />Not at all. Otherwise churches like the Shrine of the Little Flower in Oak Park, MI St. Barbara's in Chicago (built around 1910),and the Renaissance-era Gesu in Rome would never have been built as they were, and the Pantheon (a former temple) would never have been turned into a church.Dave P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-12286489440861556622013-03-19T11:58:19.139-05:002013-03-19T11:58:19.139-05:00Yes, but are those "in the round" buildi...Yes, but are those "in the round" buildings prohibited somewhere in the Catechism or other documents? <br /><br />CatladyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-36564567690219811182013-03-19T11:55:31.289-05:002013-03-19T11:55:31.289-05:00I think that's where you're supposed to po...I think that's where you're supposed to post a Youtube video of Africans dancing at Mass and ask if that's a clown Mass too.<br /><br />The fact is there are things that must be done and then there are things that are a matter of preference. Same for Pope Francis' clothing choices, which seem to be causing quite a stir as well. Maybe he doesn't want to wear red shoes and there is nothing, anywhere, that says that he can't. That kind of thing.<br /><br />I go to a Mass that has guitars and Dan Schutte songs every week and I love it. My preference. Still the Mass, whether they like it or not!<br /><br />CatladyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-66869725418823382282013-03-19T11:02:12.906-05:002013-03-19T11:02:12.906-05:00A very fair and balanced post. Thank you for this....A very fair and balanced post. Thank you for this.<br />Angela M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-55195406108869071462013-03-19T10:57:28.632-05:002013-03-19T10:57:28.632-05:00I was the music director in a Catholic parish for ...I was the music director in a Catholic parish for 7 years, so I planned several liturgies at which the bishop would be present and the diocesan liturgy office always had a pretty specific list of what was/was not acceptable. If our bishop offered a Mass like this, you can rest assured that the diocesan liturgy office (and probably he himself) approved of it. Maybe things are different in other dioceses, maybe not. <br /><br />That said, I haven't planned a liturgy for children in a few years, but I'm pretty sure that puppets, skits, and so on are allowed at Masses where the majority of the attendees will be children. I can't say I'm a fan, but what is allowed isn't an abuse. Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-86172167188546044322013-03-19T10:42:55.230-05:002013-03-19T10:42:55.230-05:00For what it's worth, I just asked the headmast...For what it's worth, I just asked the headmaster of my son's school if, over the years, when Archbishop Dolan came here to say mass (which he did many times), and now Archbishop Listecki and Bishop Hying - if we've ever had their offices check with us about what we were planning for mass. The answer was "NO." Other than having to tell them if we have vestments here for them or not, or if we had unconsecrated hosts and wine on-site. He said he has never been questioned once. <br /><br />The truth is that some bishops offices are probably on top of this stuff, and some are not. We need to give priests and bishops a break, people, on some things.Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-57628569333782388312013-03-19T10:30:37.735-05:002013-03-19T10:30:37.735-05:00ditto what Allison said.
As to dreadful-looking ...ditto what Allison said. <br /><br />As to dreadful-looking modernist churches, well, I am sorry to report that even really good bishops approve the plans for them, and they get built on their watch.<br /><br />We have a surprising number of "in the round" Catholic churches in this diocese, with "worship spaces" indistinguishable from Protestant mega-churches'.Esnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-33779606119535292282013-03-19T10:27:18.423-05:002013-03-19T10:27:18.423-05:00Allison, I'm sure there are bishops who operat...Allison, I'm sure there are bishops who operate that way. But what about the bishops who don't? What about the bishop of a diocese (like, say, Buenos Aires) where there are MILLIONS of people in one diocese, with hundreds and hundreds of churches and organizations and dozens upon dozens of requests for the bishop in one week alone?<br /><br />What if that "clown mass" as a favor to someone in a high-up position? What if that "clown mass" was in response to a public criticism that bishop ignores Catholic youth organizations?<br /><br />What if the bishop's secretary or master-of-ceremonies screwed up that week? What if the youth mission pulled a fast one on the bishop?<br /><br />The point is that this ONE mass that the Traditionalists are harping about, and that is making its way around the Catholic internet, is just ONE mass. It represents nothing. There are videos like this of Cardinal Dolan, and he certainly isn't a lover of "clown masses," by any means, even if some idiot shows up here with a 15 year old picture of Cardinal Dolan wearing a cheese head at a mass one time. (Such photos exists.)<br /><br />They are scraping the bottom of the trash can to find dirt on Pope Francis and it's despicable. And by the way, this goes without saying, that doesn't include you, Allison. You are always wise and charitable and loving all the time - keep it up and smash all my stereotypes, please! : )Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-722282603037162413.post-9601182339266750012013-03-19T10:14:14.713-05:002013-03-19T10:14:14.713-05:00When my Bishop said a Mass for the homeschoolers h...When my Bishop said a Mass for the homeschoolers his Master-of-Ceremonies type guy called to go over the Mass...see what we had planned, in detail...to OK it.Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05423794317423373245noreply@blogger.com